How to make PM a career, not just a job!

Are you ready to turn property management from a job into a fulfilling career?

Property management can be a challenging field, filled with tight deadlines, unique personalities and constant problem-solving. 

What if you could turn those challenges into opportunities, reignite your passion, and make property management not only rewarding but an incredible journey?

What if it could be more than just a job?

In this session, Hayley Mitchell, a passionate real estate professional and educator with over two decades of experience, will unpack ideas and strategies to help you make property management an incredible career.

Hayley, who embarked on her real estate journey in 1999, has built a diverse career in property management, including owning her own businesses. As a licensed estate agent, she has been recognised for her dedication and expertise, winning the REIV Property Manager of the Year award twice and being named one of Elite Agent's top 50 Industry Influencers across several years.

What You’ll Gain:

• Find Your Passion: Reignite your love for property management by connecting with its deeper purpose.

• Unlock Strategies for Success: Learn how to navigate challenges and turn them into growth opportunities.

• Build an Incredible Career: Explore practical steps to shift from “just a job” to a meaningful and sustainable career.

  
  

This webinar isn’t just about work – it’s about creating a professional life you can truly love. Make the decision to invest in yourself and your future, with insights from one of the industry's top influencers. Let’s turn property management into an incredible adventure – together!

---

Kylie:

It's great to see everybody joining the call. Thank you so much. We're still happy to hear where you're dialing in from and like, I say, dialing in from gosh, like it's 1995. But you know, zooming in from. I'm GenX. What can I say? So just let us know where you're coming from in the chats. We love that.

It's great to have you all here and thank you so much, Hayley, for joining us today just before we kick off at rise. We understand the importance of connection to the country. Is someone else getting a weird noise coming in? I'm not sure what's going on there. No, okay, let's just write it off as my life at the moment. So I just wanted to do a quick acknowledgement of the country. I'm here on Wangal Land, in the Eora Nation, in Sydney. It is on the banks of the Parramatta River in Canada Bay, Moines, 5 Dock for those who know it, and the Rise initiative acknowledges the traditional owners of past, present, and emerging.

So I'm really grateful to have Hayley here today. This is our 1st specific property management presentation, so big shout out to all the PMs out there and she is a highly respected leader in the real estate industry with over 20 years of experience. She's a fully licensed real estate agent, a two-time REIV property manager of the year, and has been named one of elite agents, top 50 industry influences across several years. She's the founder of Mitchell, Pt. Where she delivers practical innovative training to property professionals, and she also runs B+B property managers, a short stay, property, management, business. Her passion for helping others grow and succeed is at the heart of everything she does. And you're also on the board of REIV. Am I correct, Hayley? So congratulations.

Hayley:

Now.

Kylie:

But Vice President, well done! So please join me in welcoming Haley Mitchell. Hailey. I'm going to turn my video off and hand it over to you.

Hayley:

Awesome. Thank you so much, Kylie, and thank you everyone for coming along today. This was actually a really hard session to write, because I had to reflect all the way back throughout my whole career. And it was really interesting. So hopefully, I'll give you a few insights today. Sorry about my croaky voice, I am a little bit sick, so hopefully I will be okay. I've got my hot honey and lemon so I should get through. Okay. But I'm a little bit croaky, so we'll see how we go. So I wanted to thank everyone for coming along who's registered. I also want to thank Kylie and the team at Rise. So if you haven't been following what rise do? It is incredible.

The amount of support you can get, and obviously the real care app as well. So if you haven't downloaded that, please do and share it amongst your whole community, everyone, you know, because, you know, we're going through really challenging times at the moment, and to know that you've got something like rise there available for you, I think, is really incredible. So I'm going to go through my career journey. And I just did a snapshot of a few key elements.

So I actually entered the real estate industry in 1999, and like a lot of you on this zoom, you probably kind of fell into it. My brother was actually working in real estate, and at that time I was actually a door bitch at nightclubs. So that was an interesting transition. But my background prior to real estate was hospitality. So I'd either do bar, work busy work, or be on the door at certain nightclubs that I worked at and I remember having lunch with my brother one day, and he was working as a cadet in real estate, and I turned up, and he's wearing a suit, and he had a car, and I thought, Oh, this looks pretty cool. And he said, I think you'd actually be really good at property management. I'm like, Yeah, maybe. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I'd kind of work really hard for a while, and then nick off overseas for a couple of months, and come back and do some more real work for a while.

So I was kind of just living the life really transient. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my career. I never did throughout my whole schooling and he then got a job in a South bank agency, and he said to me, They're looking for a receptionist, and I went in for an interview and got hired, and ultimately did my agent's rep certificate at the same time. So I worked at that agency for a little while, and I loved it and I remember I got to a stage where I went. I want to be a property manager. I've been doing the job for about, I think, 10 months as a receptionist and I thought I want to be a property manager. I reckon I'd be really good. I'd love it. I was always talking to the property managers and helping them where I could, and I went to them, and I said I would love an opportunity to be a property manager, and they said to me, I'm really sorry, but we don't train within.

So we only hire people with the experience. And I went. Gosh, okay, well, let's go find a job. So I left that agency and I ended up working at a Stockdown Lego for about 18 months as an assistant property manager and left there and then I went to hawking. Stewart and I worked at 3 different agencies, and I stayed with hawking Stewart right up until about 2,009. So I had a really incredible career through my hawking Stewart days. But I remember when I got the 1st job at hawking. Stewart, and I was a receptionist, and I was there for a while, and then a property management role came up.

I probably didn't really have the level of experience to jump straight into a portfolio, but I got the opportunity to do so, and I did it, and I absolutely loved it. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but I did my best, and I learned along the way. Once I got to hawking Stewart. I then ended up going across to the South Yarra office as the Senior property manager. I had no idea how to lead a team or run an office. Funny story the 1st day I did the trust accounting.

No one showed me what to do. So I was learning from the book, and I was really stressed about it because I had 200 properties under management. I'm sitting there processing rents. No idea what I'm doing. And I did a payment run, and all went well, the owners got their money. We all, you know, everything was great.

Then the next day I got a call from the Armadale office because we'd split the portfolio and taken part to South Yara, and Jane called me, and she left. So you did your 1st statement run? I went. Yeah, it went really well, she was there.

Not exactly. You paid all the management and lending fees to us because I hadn't changed the bank records in the back end of the system. So this is what I mean by, you know. Sometimes you just take a leaf and go. I can do this. I can learn along the way. Luckily, Jane just transferred the cash over to us. So we're all okay. But it was a lesson learned right? You don't always know it all. Sometimes you really need that little bit of extra training or guidance to ensure that you're not making quite big mistakes. In 2009, I decided that I wanted to take the leap into my own business, so I became a partner at the Hocking Stewart Office in South Yarra. I loved what I was doing.

But I got bored. It wasn't challenging for me anymore. It had about 700 under management. We'd grown from about 180 to 700 in about a 6 year period. I was doing a little bit of training at the REIV as well, and I loved what I did, but it just wasn't a challenge, and I thought, What's my next step? My next step is to go into business for myself. So I did that in 2010, in 2014. I set up my training events company Mitchell, Pt. And I've been doing that ever since, so I've always kind of had 2 roles. I've always had the training events side of things, but I've also had the rent role on the side.

In 2019 we or 2018. Actually, we sold Mitchell property management in Melbourne and 2019. I expanded to regional Victoria and opened up to long property managers, which is still going today. Mike's husband now manages that one in 2022, I started B+B property managers, and that's short term accommodation. The reason for that is, I own my own short stays, and I started managing them myself, and I thought, Well, if I can manage those, I can probably take on a few clients as well, so I only have a portfolio of about 20 properties, which is all I want. I just kind of play with that on the side as a part time type thing. So my training and my events, plus my B+B.

In 2022, I joined the REIV board, and I became vice President this year, and I've really really enjoyed that challenge. It has been really interesting to see the other side of it as well. So I'm up for election in October. So hopefully, I'll get voted back in again. So what we're going to do today, I'm going to do a little bit of a play with Slido, so that throughout the session I can actually ask you guys some questions as well. So if you can scan the QR code for me.

I'll just give you a couple of minutes. Usually we're all like, turn your phones off. Put them away. Now I'm like, get your phones out. So scan on that, and we'll move forward to the next question. So how long have you been working in real estate? And should it come up? Yeah, it's working well. As people answer, you'll see in the top right corner. It'll say how many people have answered the question. So up to 31 at the moment and at the end of this all of I've set it all up to be anonymous, so I can download the poll, and I'm happy to send it through to Kylie and Kylie if she'd like to share it with people that's absolutely fine.

We'll see what sort of data we get out of it today up to 61 alright. So we have 10 years plus, which is the most common with 39%, one to 4 years, 29%, 5 to 9, 25, and less than 12 months, 9%. So I'm in Vic, and I know quite a few of your other States have had legislation. Changes as well. I know New South Wales and Victoria are very similar in a lot of ways in our legislation now, but it seems like every week something else is changing or getting added, and I know New South Wales. You've just had this crazy pet legislation which I was having a chat with Julie Collins recently, and she was explaining it to me. And I'm like, what? But it's really interesting. So for those people that have been in real estate, you know, less than 12 months, or one to 4 years.

When you're newer to the industry. I find that, for me, it's probably the best time to get into real estate, because you've got no preconceived ideas about how it was in the past, because it is a little bit more challenging now when it comes to legislation, and what we have to work with. For those oldies. 10 years plus well done sticking with it. We love to get some of the answers today from you guys about, you know, what you see in the industry and how you're dealing with certain aspects of it as well.

So the future of property management. And you know, I always, when I was writing this session I was sitting there laughing about how we used to manage properties. You know how it was in the old days.

It can be really confusing, and it can be really overwhelming. And I remember when I 1st started in real estate and I became a property manager. I wanted to know it all, and it really really frustrated me that I didn't. So if someone rang me and asked me a question, I wanted to be able to just go, which I can now, because I know it. But then I didn't know the answers, and I kept having to say to people, I just have to go and find out, and I'll get back to you.

The thing is, you actually don't need to know at all. I don't know it all. You just need to know where to find the information when people ask for it, so never be afraid to say to someone, I'm not quite sure. But let me find out and get back to you by this date and time as long as you stick to the promise that you are going to get back to them. There is absolutely no problem with that. As I said, you do not have to know it all.

But I thought back to what it was like when I started in real estate. So we had film in the camera. We had handwritten condition reports we used to do ads in the age with, you know, slug and DW. And BIR. You know all these abbreviations because letters cost money. So I remember the age back then was $8.88 a line, and you generally only be allowed to do up to 10 lines depending on the owner's budget for advertising. So you know, you'd have this little little ad in the age that would cost them $80 an ad.

We used to have properties that were vacant for a month to 2 months, and that was the norm, you know. If you have a vacancy. Now, where a property is vacant for a week or 2. The owners are screaming because I need the money. We had pages. So if I was out and about, and someone needed me. My pager would go, and I'd have to go to a pay phone and then ring back to the person who paged me. We had these phones that were like bricks at the very beginning.

And then, now we've got a computer in our hands. We had the dot matrix printer where we did all the receding, and you know you'd know the perforated lines and stop lining up, and the receipt would go like this. You'd have to, you know. Rip off all the receipts and hand one to the renter, and then pop one in the tenant file, and then you'd have to have boxes and boxes and reams of paper. It was just crazy, and you'd have to sit there and sign them all.

We had our, you know, old fashioned phones at the office, and my very 1st job at Stocky's. I had a typewriter that kind of looked a bit like that one in the photo, and we used to have the Cav type leases, and we'd have to get them exactly on the line and type out leases there. So you know, incredible what we actually had to deal with 25 years ago. It doesn't even sound that long ago and compared to what we actually have at our fingertips now.

So when we used to do routines, it was pen and paper. If it was a high end property I'd film in the camera. Rent reviews were done. If an owner asked and called and asked one to be done lease renewals if they wanted one done. We leased properties by handing out keys, opens, or privates. So $50 deposit photo ID. It's insane when you think of that now, rental documentation. So we had the Civ template. We had the carbon Copy Condition Report lodging bonds actually came in in 1999, prior to that was in the Agency Trust account. So one of my 1st jobs was getting all of our tenants filling out the bond lodgment forms, writing checks, getting them signed by our lieutenants, and then and then putting the bonds at the RTBA.

We did all our maintenance by letter and fax machine advertising in the age, putting that in the agency window was typed on a word, Doc, with a if you know, it was an expensive property, would have a photo on, developed on film and just sticky taped and popped in the office. We used to have to process rents and chase arrears. It was very, very manual. A lot of people paid by cash as well. We had to lodge paper forms at our tribunal. So my 1st office was in Glen Huntley and head off, or sorry VCAT office was at King Street so we used to fill out a form, write a check, drive to King Street, lodge it over the counter, and then you'd have to wait for them all to send a letter out to say that your VCAT had been processed, and when to go to the hearing, guess how many properties a property manager could manage end to end.

So answer that one in the chat for me, going back to 2025 years ago. How many properties do you reckon a property manager could manage end to end. I'd love to know what you guys think. See if you're gonna pop it in for us. Colleen, a hundred 80 to 200. Renee, 22414. Body corporate! Oh, my God! Scary! 200 200 300 wasn't uncommon. Hi, Julie! 102 50 to 300 51 50 to 1 80. So my portfolio had 250. It wasn't unheard of to be around that 2 to 2, 200 to 300 mark. And the interesting thing is, we have so much technology now to help us but the amount of properties we manage is less and it's because the job that we do now is at such a higher level than what it was 20 years ago.

Everything people want now is immediate. If you forget to do a rent increase, if you forget to renew a tenant or it's not done on time. The owners are screaming for compensation. Years ago you only did. If an owner called and said, “Hey, my tenants have gone periodic, do you reckon we can get them on a lease?” And you'd be like, “Oh, I don't know. I'll give him a call and see what I can do.” So the expectations of the consumer and the customer have changed and technology in particular. You know, social media and mobile phones have made everyone want that immediate answer. So it is a really challenging position to be in as the property manager now. And what we're finding, too, is we've got a lot more support behind a PM. So, when we talk about property management numbers, you may still manage 300 properties but you may have an assistant property manager helping you. So you're both working on the portfolio, you might have leasing consultants or admin support or vas, which means that you're not actually managing 300. It's got to be split amongst the amount of people working on that portfolio. So it's really important to understand that in the day most property managers did everything end to end. But we have different concepts now with how we set up the structure of the offices to ensure that everyone can do the job correctly.

So what changed software? And there's more software coming out all the time. We've got our computers, laptops, mobile phones. We're always accessible. And that is one of the problems because people can't turn off. We've got online marketing. It's not just print social media messaging applications, such as WhatsApp, AI, ChatGPT. I use it all the time. And I love it. Cool maintenance and compliance software as well. We've got routine inspection condition report software, 360 tours. You know, we've got AI that will write our comments when we actually scan the rooms and do our photos, got to check it. But it's really good at saving time, having quality photos on our phones. We've got digital signage documents. We've got paperless offices, there is so much and so much more is coming but PM is a challenging role. We're always in the middle between the owner and the renter.

It's an ever changing landscape when it comes to legislation and regulation. Property is easy. People are hard. So often people will say people. I don't like people. If you don't like people, you're in the wrong job. Property is a byproduct of what we do. People are at the heart of what we do. So the actual property transaction I find super easy. It's just managing the expectations of clients that can be a challenge. We've got technology and software changes all the time that are hard to switch off. Not everyone works in a supportive agency. There are some incredible agencies out there. They really are, but not. Everyone gets the opportunity to work in a supportive caring environment.

It's a big industry. But sometimes you can feel really alone. And I found this when I was a director of a small property management only company, because when you're part of something like Hocking Stewart, or you know, a big franchise organization, you get the support from other leaders within that organization. When you work on your own, and you've got a standalone office, you can often feel like you are just siloed, and you're alone. And as a leader that can be really, really challenging. Competition is healthy but it can be toxic. So what I mean by that is, I've got friends who work in a similar area to me who do a really good job, and often I'll come up against them at an appraisal, and that would be when I was in Geelong with my normal rent roll my long term rental plus my B+B rent role that I have now.

So everyone wants to win the business but at what cost? So we have to make sure that we're always acting really, really professional. Don't undercut your fees. It is like one of my major gripes in this industry that we do so much for people, but we give it away for less than what we're worth. Compete with your competitors on service and I think that is probably one of the most important things that we need to remember in property management, because unless we can keep the fees up as high as possible, we're never going to be paid what we're worth and a healthy team makes a difference to the culture and that comes from the leader down.

So some comments that drove me to success in my early days. I just don't know what you have. You have what it takes to be a good property manager. So when I was at an agency, I wouldn't say which one is the property manager. I was working on a reception, and the property manager walked out like literally wiped her computer, left her keys on the desk and left. That was it. And I went back after lunch and said, Where's she gone? And then I went upstairs and said to the Director. “I don't think she's coming back.” and he's like, “What are you talking about?” I'm like, “Well, her computer's wiped. Her keys are on the desk, and I don't think she's coming back anyway.” I didn't really have the experience to be a property manager, but I stepped in, so they pulled me off. Reception. Pop me into property management, and God, I gave it a red hot go like, I really really tried my very best and we only had about 80 properties under management. But we actually had no software. So everything was being managed on excel spreadsheets. And it was a bit of a nightmare, anyway. I did that job job for about a month, and I said, I really want to have the PM role. So I don't want to go back to reception. What can I do to get this role, anyway? He sat me down. He said, look, I really appreciate everything you've done for us but I just don't think you have what it takes to be a good property manager, and I was devastated because I'd given it everything I possibly could. What he probably should have said to me was, I don't think you're ready to manage a portfolio on your own just yet, so what we'd love to do is we'd love to pop you back to reception. We're going to hire an experienced PM, but as the business grows we're going to give you more and more responsibility and allow you to learn from the seniors, and then we can create a pod where you can work as the assistant and learn that way.

I completely agree. I didn't have the experience to do that role then, but the way it was packaged to me was not a positive. So I left, and I went to another agency as a property manager, and they trained me. I told you that one before. We only don't train people on the job. We only hire experienced PMs. Personally, I'm all about training people. If you've got the time and resources to do it because you train people the way you want the job done. Sometimes when you hire experience. Pm's. They come with their own notion of how it's all got to work, and they don't always conform to your service standards when I started my new PM company back in 2010. I don't know if anyone else can remember what happened in 2010 but GFC hit 20. 2009, 2010, and people said to me, Oh, my God! It's a terrible time to start a new property management company. And I'm like, why, everyone needs a house. And yeah, it really did. Well, so I know the 1st year I put on 44 properties, which for me was great. So it was a standing start in an area I didn't own. Second year, I put on 6, I think, and then after that it was about 70, so you know, from a standing start, I was pretty proud of myself, but after 3 years, with no marketing budget, I had 200 properties under management, and I worked really hard, but I loved it.

I got told. I don't look old enough to be an owner of a business. I wish someone would say that to me now, since I turned 50 last week, but anyway, or last month I actually went for an appraisal once, and someone said to me, oh, what do you do at the office? And I said, I'm a partner, and they said, You don't look old enough to be an owner of a business, and I got out my ID, and then she was quiet. I was actually in an awards ceremony once, and this comment really irked me and it was actually said to me from another judge, and I won't say what the award ceremony was, but I was sitting there, and I was sitting next to a middle aged guy, and he said to me, What do you do? And I told him, and he said,

How does your husband feel about you being at work? And I said, I think he's fine, like he works. I work, we all work. He goes well, who is looking after your kids and I said that would be my husband, cause they're also his kids. So even in this industry, you often do get people who judge you for wanting to have a career. And that, yeah, that was just one comment. I remember, I put it on Facebook later, and people like Holy Crap can't believe it. Someone said that to you. So it was, and as I said, it was another judge who would judge the awards. So it was pretty scary. They didn't work in real estate, though. So it's okay.

So has anyone else ever had comments that have driven them to success. So pop it into Slido. Don't put in the chat this time around. You might need to scan the QR code again but we'll see what comes up. Hopefully, it's going to click in. Is it not a working bit of chicken? Actually either that or no one wants to play with me anymore?

Here we go. Okay. I was told I was not worth the pay rise. Wow! You're never going to get anywhere in real estate. All these are good. I shouldn't have put negative ones, though I can't believe that you can get away with looking like that while you're pregnant but you better look bloody good when you come back. Oh, my God, You will be like a fresh breath of air in the industry that's awesome! I was told I couldn't be a PM due to having a baby. I can tell you that at 3 months of age Amber came to that many condition reports and photos, and absolutely everything with me, and she's going to be an awesome property manager one day, and I used to say to people when I went back to work after 3 months and think 2 days a week. Nana had her, and 2 days a week. I went to the office and I took her with me, and we had a cot and everything at the back of the office and we had. I say to people, if I wanted me for an appraisal, I'd say, yep, you can have me Monday or Wednesday on my own or Tuesday and Thursday with my daughter.

What do you choose? The amount of people that said, Oh, please bring your baby. Then we can have cuddles, so I'd take her to appraisals, and I'd cuddle my baby while I talked to them. So it actually worked really, well, so yeah, I actually found that having the working with the kids actually worked really well for me in those early years as well. Okay. So some of these, I was told, I do not have the people skills for the industry. I wish I could copy you and have all the PM's work like you. I love it. We value your work here. You have a perfect personality for this. I was told I couldn't be a PM. Due to having a baby working, mum. I used to work hard to prove people wrong when you could be a PM. And still a great mum rude comments from males about looks and ability. Your presence has made a difference. We did the pregnant one, not necessarily a comment, but a look. You're never going to get anywhere in real estate. I was told I wasn't worth a pay rise.

So you know a lot of these sort of comments, and sometimes they're really flippant by people just thrown around. They can really either drive you to succeed, or they can drive people out of the industry. So as leaders or anyone working in an office. We really need to think about what we say and how we say it. Another thing is, you know, some of these things, comments here. I wish I could copy it. You have all the PM's. We value your work. They are tiny little comments that can mean so much. And I think we really need to think about how we can always tell people that we value them for what they give.

So the right people make all the difference. A good leader is also a mentor, and I was super lucky early in my career to have some incredible mentors. So when I worked at Hawkins Stewart, my director was Peter Perignon, and he was firm but fair. Let's say he was tough at times, but he always pushed, and he always supported, and I know that when I went from a Pm. Position to leadership, and I really did not know how to manage a team, he said to me because I said to him, I just don't think I can do it, Pete, like I really think that I'm just not the right person to do this and he said, I believe in you. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to hire a coach, and she's going to sit with you for an hour a month, and she's going to train you how to be a leader. Because, he said, I know you can do it. He goes. You're bloody good. Pm, but you haven't learned that skill. So he actually paid for someone for 12 months, once a month to help me learn how to lead, and honestly, without him

I wouldn't have stuck with it. He was drowning until I actually had that help. I had another really amazing senior PM, when I started at one of the offices, Jane and she again was just fabulous at just going. You're right. You can do this. This is what we're gonna do. I then, early in my career, met sadness, smiles, and she spent a lot of time helping me and supporting me. And I know she's part of Rise as well. And now I do training for her team, and we bounce ideas, and we're very good friends. So you know there's all of these people in the industry who shape who you are and can help you get to where you want to be. So I want to shout out to those who have mentored and led you when you needed it the most. So who are those people? If you sit there and go?

Who has shaped my career? Who has helped me say their name? Tell us who they are, and why? What have I done to help you play Defazio? Awesome. Wait for a small one. That was very quick, and it was in capitals. Kathy. Hopefully. Kathy's on this. So she knows who she is. Emma Gordon. She is amazing. I love Emma, Brianna Mel, Leah Kelden, love her! Peter Lee's Michelle Williams. Yes, she's great! Sammy Kathy, Julie. Oh, me! Julie Changlan stuck up for you, Louise Tate, Michael Berry.

So my next question is, have you told them? Because you've got these people who have shaped your career, who have supported you, who have helped you, and remember what I said before. Sometimes you get lonely. Have you actually told them so? You know, after this session, when an opportunity comes up. Tell them I told Sadhana. You know I said, you really shaped my career and helped me when I needed it. Go back to those people and say thanks and think about how they have helped and what you can do to then pass that on to someone else, because I think one of the things is, we often give that negative feedback when we need to start shouting out and saying thanks for those who made a positive impact and I do it all the time like, if I'm in a restaurant, someone gives me excellent service. I will say to them, thank you so much. That was such a good meal. It was such good service. Little things like that. They'll go home thinking, oh, this is absolutely awesome. So again, just give that a positive thought. Let's try and give that positive feedback whenever we can. So I love that list. But make sure you go back to those people and thank them for what they've done for you as well.

So why do I love PM? The relationships I've built? I love helping people and creating great outcomes for my clients. Renters are not the enemy. They are as important as everyone else in the equation, and the excellent Pms, I know, are the people that treat renters with respect, and empathy owners are not all crap. They're incredible owners out there, and if you have a challenging client, don't let it railroad your day. 99% of clients are awesome.

So remember that. Don't just sit there and go. Oh, my God, this job sucks. It's so hard. No 5 people in your portfolio suck, the other 200 are awesome, so don't let those 5 judge. The rest of the owners are not all rich, and this is one thing that I find really challenging, that there's often this preconceived notion that owners are all rich. They've got heaps of properties, got heaps of money, you know it's only 2 grand, but a lot of people. It's a huge investment and commitment. And sometimes they're living paycheck to paycheck. So sometimes they've come up with creative solutions for them to ensure that they can manage their properties effectively. If you don't like people, it ain't the job for you.

Every day is a challenge, and I love that I can continue to learn and improve. Training and learning is continuous for me, so I can work at my best at all times. So I'm actually going to a conference on Friday in Melbourne. I haven't been to it before. But one of my friends, Dave Scal, messaged me. If you know Dave, he's awesome. Actually a funny story. I'll tell you how Dave and I met. He, randomly. I manage a Facebook group that's quite big.

Randomly, I got this message from this guy, Dave one night that said, Hey, my name's Dave. I've got a property management company in Wagga Wagga. I like what you do on the APMC. I was just wondering if we can maybe collaborate. I've always wanted to speak at events, and I thought it'd be cool to catch up and get to know each other. I'm like, okay. So I just googled him. I thought Rando okay, Googled him, reached out and said, Great! Let's have a chat. We're now like really good friends. He will give me ideas. I can vent to him. I can get support from him. He messaged me and said, I'm going to a conference on Friday. Do you want to come? I said. Great! Let's book a hotel in Melbourne. Not together. It's not like that, and we'll catch up for dinner, and then we'll go to a conference on Friday. So you know there's these people in the industry that you connect with that are just random connections, that they can actually be a huge part of your career as well.

One thing that I find really, really challenging is, we have signs in restaurants telling us to be nice to people. Abuse won't be tolerated as a society. It actually makes me sad. So just be a good human. Be nice to people wherever you are, in as many dealings as you can have as well. The other thing is, I'm a legislation nerd. I bloody love it like I'll sit there and read the act, and that's like fun for me. So I know a lot of people aren't like that, but that's how I like to educate myself as well. So how do you find your passion for PM?

Comes up? Prescia? I'd agree with that. Actually, I work well under pressure with deadlines so I don't create a training session till the day before. I'm going to train it, and Jara used to always laugh at me and go, you bloody, hopeless. Just get yourself organized. But I'm like, no, I work well under pressure or sometimes when you write a sentence it will separate it. Which is annoying. So good relationships, variety challenges, good team office morale, director training, and others' money. Yeah, look, we don't do it for free. Smiling. Yeah, it's separated. Some words here. So it's hard, good relationships, good team.

When you think about it, you probably spend more time awake with your team than you do with your family at home. So, you know, if you're in an office where you're not feeling that support, you're not feeling that teamwork, it can be really, really challenging. So, I highly suggest, you go and chat to someone about what you can do, because I have seen offices that had terrible culture that have been able to turn it around so it is possible to turn it around. But yeah, the team is definitely one of the most important parts of it.

So how to unlock strategies for success plans can adapt and change. Never lock yourself in, because you're too scared to take a leap. Surround yourself with amazing people that can help and support you, to achieve your dreams and educate yourself and never stop learning. I never stop learning. I love my legislation, but I never, ever stop trying to learn more. If you see someone you admire reach out to them, talk to them. You might even find a synergy where you can support and learn from each other. Always do your best for yourself and your clients and if you make a mistake, fix it, don't hide it. Don't leave it there for someone else.

Don't hope it goes away. It doesn't. It will always pop up, help others who are struggling and offer support when needed, and give back as much as you can set yourself challenges. So if you want to do something, it's never a good time. Sometimes you actually just need to do it and set boundaries with your clients, so you don't get sucked into work working continuously without breaks.

So what does success mean to you? I've nearly finished but I'm close to the end. What does success mean to you?

Work, life, balance a lot, satisfaction. Money, fulfillment, happiness, joy, happy team, happy clients! Happy me financially. Stable love it, pay, rise, accomplishments, acknowledgement, positive workplace. Seeing the team meet. Goals, love that relaxing, overcoming challenges, progress. Being a supportive, happy environment, cohesive team, happy owners, money, happiness all the time, having balance, vow to provide for my family comfortably. Unlike how I grew up fabulous. Everyone working together, growth and money reward. Work-life balance, which can mainly come from a workplace where you can feel content, and the team is supportive. Fabulous! I love all these balanced work and family.

Absolutely. All right. I'm going to click forward. So, building a career, I've had many different steps along the way from my Mitchell property management rent role which I absolutely loved, which was in South Melbourne. I live in Geelong. I made the really tough decision to sell it, and that was really hard for me because it was my baby. But I had 2 babies, real life ones, and I just found the commute to Melbourne. Every day was just absolutely breaking me. And it was a really really tough decision, a tough time. But where I am now I'm really happy with what I've created. MitchellPT, I love it. I love being able to give back. I love being able to meet people, I love being able to train, and B. And BI love still having the tools in the game. I do miss having a residential rent role, and that will be something that I will do again in the future. But for me, I want to wait until the kids are at high school, and then I can go back to doing a resident role as well. But at the moment I've got a really really good balance where I've got a great home life and yeah, businesses which are ticking along and doing what they need to do.

So what do you want to achieve in your PM career? If you look back in 20 years and say. I've done it. What was it? What do you want to do? There's some PMs that are happy being property managers. They don't want to own their own business. There's a lot of people that actually want to go into business ownership, but they're not sure what to do or how to do it, or how to achieve it. So what do you want to do? Start your own agency. BDM, only be a partner or director. Awesome, proven people wrong, love it and saying that partner or director, if you're in office where you've got a director at the moment, a lot of directors are open to you buying into part of a business as well, and that's what I did in in property in hawking Stewart so actually bought part share. Then when I sold. I just sold the share back back to them. So there is that opportunity in a lot of offices where you don't have to do it on your own, where you can just buy a share of a current business, have your own agency, create an environment where people love to come to work and get support, getting rid of sales, and financial success.

Happy clients become role model team leaders to someone and some coworkers took up to be the head of Pm. Help the new PMs that have no experience. I love that that is like my favorite role, Co. Manage a portfolio, be a BDM, become a legislation that we need to talk about because I'm more than happy to do Facebook messages at night when I'm reading legislation to become a role model for upcoming. Pm's as well love it.

So there were some really tough years. So I went through a fairly tricky divorce couple of years ago and I lost my mojo. It's probably the best way to put it. I felt really lost. I feel really isolated. I felt like I didn't have control, and it was really tough, and I remember there was one night I was sitting on the couch, and Steve Carroll put up a post about riding the 500 Ks in 5 days. And I previously had someone that said, You can't do that. That's ridiculous. You don't even own a bike. And I'm like, Okay, I can't do it because I was in that mindset. I can't do it anyway. Sitting on the couch one night after getting divorced and and or in the midst of it, actually. And a Facebook post came up and said, Who wants to come? And I wrote back and went yep and literally signed up, and then message Steve, and said, just signed up, and he's like holy shit. All right, let's do this. So I did. I rode 500 Ks. In 5 days across Thailand. 1st I had to buy a bike because I didn't actually have a bike. So that was fun and training and I did that ride, and then I did it again this year. Yes, this year, and I'm doing it again next year. It's an incredible experience so don't use the excuse of hate. Don't use the excuse. I don't have a bike. Don't use the excuse. I'm too old. I can't do anything different if you want to really challenge yourself, do something. It doesn't have to be this, but do something.

And there's just a little note that my daughter left in my luggage, and I didn't get it till I was on the plane. And that was why I did it, because I had those tough years, and I needed to find my strength and it was, I have to say, it's been actually a life changing experience. So if you have those tough times, please do something that pushes you outside your comfort zone to realize how strong you really are.

So how do you guys give back? What do you do to give back to the industry, give back to the community, give back to the family, give back to charity. What do you do to give back? That's got everyone thinking. And I volunteer work, be part of community events, and the 1st national foundation, love it. Sponsorships, training others within the team, part of community fundraising, volunteer work.

It's just so important, particularly in this industry, to just have something that you give back to mentoring community training. Others don't always have to be monetary. It can just be volunteering. So always think about that, you know. Is there someone new in the industry you can mentor? Is there something that you can do to work for lions, guiding others in the franchise, because it really does give you not only a sense of achievement, but it helps others as well donations to a cat shelter. I unfortunately just keep all the animals. But that's okay. Work placements as well. So what my life looks like. Now, talking about animals. I have way too many. It's just ridiculous. But I've got my beautiful children there, and we decided that because I have them 50-50, that the 50% of time that I have them. I'm going to be present. So I do. School drop off. I do school pickup. I work on webinars or admin during those weeks, and then the weeks I don't have the kids. I nick off and do as much work as possible.

I work on the couch at night, because obviously, I'm not working full days when I'm doing the school run and netball and everything else that we're doing. We also decided that once a month we're going to have an excellent adventure so it could be going to the movies that were going to Eureka Tower, and we did the sky deck thing, which I'm terrified of hypes. But whatever I had sweaty palms, I did it. We've done the tree climb. We've done the penguins in Philip Island but we do something fun every month that we can look forward to. I've got lots of cats here. 2 Foster fails because I've fostered over 50 kittens in the last year or 60. Now, in the last couple of years, the gauze I had socks, and Barry, who turned up as strays. I've got a Teddy Bear. I've got 7 horses. I've got a dog. I've got chickens, but I lived a really happy, balanced, relaxed life, and it hasn't always been like that. Often I was just rushing, rushing, rushing all the time, but I've made the decision that I want to be a present, mum.

I love my work. I love what I do, but I've got a balance, and I'm in a really good place. So you know, if you, if you are feeling like you're on that hamster wheel. Recognise it, and please try and make some changes, because it does make a very big difference when you can get off the wheel and just enjoy what you've created.

So what are you going to put in place to start living your best life, and you might be living your best life already, and if you are fabulous but is there anything that you want to put in place to start living your best life? And I know Julie Collins is on here. She's doing some awesome trips which I'm totally jealous about, so more holidays, better work-life balance, so learn to say no, and switch off, more time off, taking better care of my health, travel the world, and healthy lifestyle, enjoying every moment, organise my task, personal and professional daily self care, better work-life balance, enjoying the moment every moment I love that public talks. I need that at the moment 1050 come on intentional time off.

I actually did get Botox once, and no one noticed. But then I told my son Max off, and I went up to him. I said, Max, don't do that, or whatever, and he just laughed at me and walked off. He was about 4 and yeah, because my tone was angry or my mum voice, but my face wasn't so. It's really funny. I didn't get it again. It's not noticed. By a house massage.

Oh, holidays. I love it. Live to learn to say no, absolutely. So, I still don't have my shit together. Don't know if I can say shit, but just did so. Sorry. Life is messy. No one is perfect, no one can do it for you. I absolutely love this industry. I love the people in it. I've made some really, really good connections.

Don't go to a conference and sit there with your mates. Go there and talk to people, learn from people, meet people, because the industry is incredible. And it doesn't matter if you don't have your shit together all the time. No one ever does. And you often look at leaders and go. My God, they're so perfect they're not. They don't have a shit together, either, I can promise you. Not all the time. So, you know, tell people the good, the bad, and the ugly, because it really does show that no one's perfect, and everyone's just giving it a red hot go so hopefully. You found that helpful. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I'm happy to share my slides as well if Kylie wants to and I will download the Slido results and make sure that they can get sent out.

So, Kylie, any comments or anything from you.

Kylie:

Thanks so much, Hayley. That was absolutely super, and I love the insights that, like the more things change, the more they stay the same that we're doing. The same number of properties now are doing even less. But, like the job is stepping up, and so that need for us to manage ourselves and to understand that it's a people job, and that we are people like, we actually need to manage ourselves as part of that absolutely and so much part of the Rise. You know the Rise philosophy.

So thank you so much for an awesome presentation. If there's any last questions, this is your chance to plonk them into the chat for Hayley. Otherwise, we might wrap up, and I just wanted to thank our sponsors, MRI Software, for allowing us to host these wellness webinars. They happen every month next month.

Now I've had a complete blank on what we've got next month. But look, I know that in August we've got Hermione Gardiner. So another property management, one coming up for PMs out there, and if you enjoyed it.

If you've heard Milo Wilkinson speak, we're also really excited to announce that she will be presenting in September. So if you were at leadership this year, or if you have heard of Milo, she's a neuroscientist, psychologist, criminologist, an amazing lady. She's our speaker for September. But thank you so much, Hayley. That was absolutely that was absolutely awesome, loved it, loved hearing about your career, but also loved the insights and the importance of balance and and ownership around that, and mentoring and getting support for it. So thank you, everyone, until next month. Thank you, Haley. Thanks, MRI. We will see you all again.

Hayley:

Awesome! Thanks. Kylie.

Kylie:

Bye!