Winning Without Burning Out: 7 Habits for Long-Term High Performance
- 5 days ago
- 45 min read
Real estate is one of the most emotionally demanding professions there is. Deals fall over. Markets shift. Clients are under pressure and success can feel like a constant sprint.
So how do you stay mentally strong, not just for a year but for an entire career?
Watch this insightful session as John provides practical habits and mindset shifts to help you support your long-term success.
John Foong is Domain’s former Chief Commercial Officer and Managing Director and continues to serve the industry as a Domain Ambassador and board member of Rise Initiative, the organisation dedicated to improving mental health in real estate.
He brings over 20 years of experience leading high-performance teams in demanding global organisations including senior roles at Google Uber and Domain where he became the youngest Director in Google Cloud globally.
Rather than big life changes, John will share seven simple habits he uses to maintain energy perspective and resilience. These habits range from how he structures his relationships and learning to the small mindset shifts that stop pressure turning into burnout.
The session draws on the science of Self-Determination Theory which shows that people perform best when three core needs are met: autonomy, competence and connection.
In this webinar you'll learn how to:
Use seven simple habits to maintain energy perspective and resilience.
Implement small mindset shifts that stop pressure turning into burnout.
Protect your mental health and improve your performance.
Understand the three core needs of autonomy, competence and connection of Self-Determination Theory.
You’ll leave with practical habits that you can start using immediately to protect your mental health, improve your performance, and build a career that is not just successful — but sustainable.
John Foong, Domain’s former Chief Commercial Officer, is talking to Kylie Davis, of the Rise Initiative.
Kylie:
My name is Kylie Davis, I'm from the RISE Initiative, and I'm very excited to welcome John Foong as our speaker today. I'm joining you here today in beautiful Ewan country on the far south coast of New South Wales, and the RISE Initiative pays our respect to Elders past, present, and emerging, and recognises the traditional lands on which we are all gathering here today.
We'll also like to seriously thank our sponsors for our wellness webinars, MRI Software and APEC, for the amazing work that they do with the RISE Initiative. It's due to their support that we're able to host some of the real estate's best trainers and coaches every single month in a free webinar as part of our mission at RISE to make better mental health, free, affordable, and easily accessible.
So I'd like to welcome John Foong to the… as our guest today. John probably needs no introduction, everybody on here knows you, John, through your time at Domain. But I'd also like to personally thank you, because John has just recently stepped down as the Director of the RISE Initiative, so that Belinda Sinclair could step into the role.
But John, I'm personally going to really miss you, but it's awesome to have you on this call for this webinar, and I really want to thank you for all the hard work that you've put into RISE over the last couple of years.
John:
Oh, thanks, Kylie. Thanks, everyone.
Kylie:
So look, I'm, so John, your background is at, at Google, you've worked, for the last, what, how long at Domain?
John:
It was, well, I guess four and a half years now, including being Domain Ambassador. I'm coming to almost five by the time I roll off.
Kylie:
Prior to that, and, fantastic thinker, one of the fastest people I know at his ability to synthesise information in a room, so… so well done. And, and I'm really looking forward to our chat today, so I'm gonna hand it over to you. Let's kick off.
John:
Great, thanks, Kylie. And hi, everyone. I hope you… can everybody hear me okay? Let me know if you can't. Thumbs up, emojis are good. I know it's a bit weird on a webinar, you know, some of you are multitasking, which is totally fine. You know, I can't see you all, except Kylie's… actually, two of Kylie's faces, which is doubly good.
You know, so please react as much as you can, on emojis, if that's allowed in the Zoom call, with pings or things like that. I'm going to ask for some participation. Nothing crazy. I mean, if you want to at any time, please raise your hand or, you know, or ask a question. I'd love to answer it. We will stop a few minutes early for any further questions as well. But I'll try and make it as interactive as possible.
So, let's drumroll, please, we'll kick off.
Kylie:
Do you want me on the call, John, or do you want me to pop off visually?
John:
Whatever works, Kylie?
Kylie:
Go back up and hold quicker.
John:
Yeah, you don't have to read the call. No worries, no worries. Alright, thanks, guys.
Okay, alright, so today, we are talking about 7 habits for sustained long-term high performance and Kylie spoke a bit about my background. On the one hand, I don't feel particularly qualified to talk about this because, you know, no one's got this right, including myself.
On the other hand, I do feel a little qualified, because number one, I guess by some measures, I am a high performer, and I'll talk about some of my credentials. And I think in particular, the last 10 to 15 years, I have learned how to transition a lot of that high performance from brute strength, brute force, and unsustainable means.
To something that's a little more sustainable and a little more habitual.
And we'll come back to that… we'll come back to the word habit a lot because if there's anything I want you to work out from today, there'll be some frameworks and things I bring, which some will resonate, some won't.
But ideally, you pick up one, two, maybe three things and go, hey, I'm gonna give that a go. I'm gonna try it once, I'm gonna try it twice. I'm gonna try it until it becomes a habit.
Alright, so hopefully that excites you. If, first participation, audience participation question, if you could, please just type in the chat now how you are feeling today. I just want to get a sense of the vibe, see if I can't see it.
How are you feeling today?
It could be good, it could be bad, it could be a percentage score if you're numerically inclined. How do you feel if zero is like, oh my goodness. 100 is, like, awesome. We'll use whatever words you like.
Great, we've got some very energised people, and maybe the unenergised people aren't using their keyboards, which is, again, totally fine as well. Grateful. Get well soon, Kylie. 79 cents is pretty good for the cold, so credit where credit's due.
Okay So, the basic framework I want to give today is the following.
What is the difference between greatness and goodness?
What defines an Olympic champion versus someone who's got good natural talent? What defines a great leader in our industry, or in anything, versus someone who's just good?
I put it to you, the difference between good and great is one thing.
Habit.
It's one thing. It's habit. Why have it? To me, habit is something you do automatically. It's something you're so used to doing that not doing it would feel harder than doing it.
That not doing it would feel weird. That, to me, is habit. And to me, what I want to share with you in these 7 habits, these 7 categories of habits today is I guess, when I took and ordered my life, what are the habits I have either developed unknowingly as a child that kind of served me well or habits I've had to intentionally work on the last 10 to 15 years in order to sustain the kind of life I'd like to live.
Right? So that's what I want to leave you with. I don't want to preach to you, I don't want to say you must do it this way, but I want to leave you with some frameworks and some ideas, and I hope you can pick up on a few.
So, before I begin, in what way would you classify me being a high performer? Besides, as some of you know, I left Domain. I'm still a Domain Ambassador, rolling that off this month. But, you know, I'm not working right now, full-time. How does it give you the right to say you're a high performer?
Kylie bragged a bit about me, which I appreciate but here are the metrics by which I define my own performance.
Number one, self and health. Number 2, family. Number three, friendships. And number four, my broader circle of career vocational achievements. And number five, community.
I think in those particular circles of my life, I've tried to live a balanced life. I want to be healthy, and I'm in decent shape right now, quite better, but decent shape.
I care a lot about my family. Those of you who know me know, I'm blessed to have 4 young girls, and I'm blessed to spend a lot of time with them. And a marriage which is pretty good, last time I checked, though I might check in tonight to see, make sure everything's okay.
Number three, when it comes to work and vocation, I'm grateful that I've been able to have some really exciting opportunities, like work at Domain, four and a half years, incredible company, like work for Google for 13 years, like work at McKinsey, which is this consulting company which helped me get to Stanford. I've been able to find really exciting and energising work, which has helped me step up.
Number four, my broader friendship and communities, has been great. When I'm a member of a church, I have some long-term friendships I'll talk about. I consider myself to have lots and lots of great, you know, relationships.
And five, community. I found the time to give back to things I care about. As Kylie spoke about, I was on the RISE board the last two and a bit years. I've been a RISE volunteer and now an influencer for the last four years. Whatever your cause is, it's something greater than yourself, whether you're giving back or paying it forward.
And to me, that's life. That's how I measure performance. There's financial metrics, that's important too. I won't talk too much in detail about today, but, you know, those are really important metrics for high performance. These are all ways in which you can measure your life.
For those of you looking for a book, there's a wonderful book by Clayton Christensen, who's a wonderful Harvard professor, called How Will You Measure Your Life? Which basically talks about, you know, makes us each ask the question, what is life really about? Because without that, we tend to drift towards financial metrics, or vocational metrics. I think for me, I gave you my scorecard, and to that extent, I'm very, very happy with kind of where my life is, and I'm working really, really hard to keep it that way.
But to me, that is long-term performance. Do you feel like your health and yourself and your spiritual dimension, do you feel your family and your relationships, your community, your job and your giving back? Are those where you want them to be? And so, how does it come to be that way? I think for me, too, a bit about my story, I think I was very lucky when I think back to my life.
My family migrated from Malaysia and from Hong Kong. I was born in Australia. I had the chance to go to a great school. I was very well supported. I think I was fortunate that I found school pretty easy, right? And I'll come to how some of this comes naturally, and some of it's, you know, you have to build your own way, but I quite enjoyed studying. Yes, I was a nerd. Hard to believe, I know, given my good looks and sporty demeanor.
But in all seriousness, I was very lucky to have that good start. A good family who was fairly stable, and also, you know, a relative liking for not just school, but the things of school. I was not good at sports, but I enjoyed watching sports, I liked volunteering, I liked debating and public speaking and all those things.
I was lucky that early on, I had kind of a good family basis, and I guess some measure of natural talent to go with that. But at some point, I hit a wall because you can ride that for a while, but effectively, inevitably, that becomes unsustainable. You can't just get by. And the world is full of people who had great potential and great starts, but weren't able to sustain it. And I put to you, the reason they were not able to state it is this.
They did not build the right habits for long-term performance. They had a great start, they had great potential, but they didn't build the right habits. And over time, they were overtaken by people who had those habits who didn't necessarily have those talents.
For example, I'm 45 now. I was never sporty. In fact, at school, I was kind of the chubby kid who was always coming to the back. I was asthmatic, I was wheezing. It's kind of hilarious to think about it now as the poor chubby kid at the back of the queue, but that's what I was, dreading the cross-country every single year. But for me now, I'm 45, I'm in pretty good shape. I'm actually faster than most of the people who are much, much faster and smarter than me 30 years ago.
I don't exactly know why, but I put it to you that what I could control is my habits. And probably the difference between me and them is not natural talent, it was that I had put in some physical habits which have sustained me for long-term performance and mental health, and they did not. And they did not.
Similar things could be said about other realms of life, about family. And so, what I will leave with today is a little bit of an acronym because I love acronyms.
The 7 habits actually correspond to 7 letters, and 7 categories. So to build the suspense, I'm just gonna go letter by letter, in order, and to see if you can buzz in first with what you guessed that 7-letter word to be. Right? Feel free to buzz in anytime, and I will celebrate you. The first one, drumroll please… Might seem very boring, but it starts with S.
It's sleep.
The number one habit for long-term performance is sorting out your sleep. Okay, can we also have a rule? Don't chat GPT 7-letter words that start with S, or use a Scrabble thing, or things like that, just to keep this game fair. There'll also be a prize. I don't know what it is, but we'll make up as we go, depending on how impressive the achievement is.
But number one is sleep. I was never good at sleeping habits. I was lucky, because I didn't seem to need that much sleep. And between that, and lots of coffee, until my mid-30s, That is how I sustained high performance. The problem is, I wasn't really sustaining high performance, and not sleeping enough, and sleeping 5 or 6 hours a night.
What would happen was, I'd stay up late, sometimes working, sometimes playing, I'd get up early, maybe to exercise, maybe to take a meeting. I wouldn't have enough sleep. I had one coffee, 2 coffees, three coffees every day. Even despite that, I'd have this mid-afternoon drag.
The end of the day would be tough. Sometimes I go to the week going, oh my goodness, how am I gonna do this with so little sleep? But I had convinced myself that I didn't really need that much sleep. That, actually, between 5-6 hours of sleep, and a coffee, or 2, or 3, I was fine.
And it was to show on planes. I'd be flying a lot for my job when I was at Google, all around the world. It's fine. I don't really need sleep. It's all okay.
The reality is, it wasn't until I met my wife that I realised that was not actually the case. And I still have this vivid memory of the time I came home from work exhausted, we were dating, or just been married, or something like that. I said, oh, great, I finally made it.
And she stood at me and said, like, “John? You don't give me your best.” I said, “What are you talking about? You're the most important person in my life.”
So, like, here's the deal. You don't sleep that much. Right? You don't sleep that much. You give it all your work, you come back, now I get the drugs. This is not the kind of marriage I would like to have. It's tough. And so for me, I take a look at myself in the mirror, and realise, I gotta sort this sleep thing out. Because actually, even though I could survive, my career was going great, and we were making good money, and all the metrics you might take.
It was not sustainable, number one. And secondly, if you go beneath the surface, it actually wasn't that great. My mood was actually erratic. At the end of the day, I was different. In fact, what I realised later is that people knew that I might make a different decision depending on how much sleep I had, or what time of the day it was. And that is not the kind of leader that I would like to be.
So, I saw my sleeping out. There's a lot of literature on this. The basic takeaways in the literature are the following. More sleep isn't necessarily better, but the vast majority of people need more sleep than what they're getting, number one.
Number two, generally under 7 hours is rare to sustain. Some people can do it, but more people think they can than actually can. Doesn't mean that 9 hours is good. 7 to 9, people found that it was depending on the person. 7 may not be better than 9. 9 could actually be bad. Not that many of you on the call probably experienced having too much sleep.
And so for me, I made the very difficult decision to do the following. I gave up coffee. I gave up coffee. Because for me, coffee was the mask that made up for not getting enough sleep. It meant that if I didn't get enough sleep, it didn't actually hurt me that much, I thought, even though it was. And as a result, I could kind of think I could get away with it.
It's only once I took away coffee that I actually had to… Make it work without using coffee, making sure I got enough sleep. To get at least 7 hours, I had to be in bed for 7 and a half, maybe eight. Now that we have kids, if I want 7 hours, I need to be in bed for, like, at least eight and a half hours, because someone is going to drop me in the middle of the night.
But the reality is, until I worked out my sleep hacks, I did not have sustainable long-term performance. I was kidding myself. And even by that time, I was in my mid-30s when I had that realisation. I had a very successful career up to then, loads of things, things like that, but it was not sustainable. I put it to you that the most successful people have figured out their sleep rhythm.
I put it to you, the most successful people have figured out their sleep rhythm. There's a whole literature in this. Put your device away an hour before bed. Honestly, I can't do it. Stop eating 2 or 3 hours before bed. I also can't do it. Sleep at the same time, roughly each night, and get up at the same time. I can’t do that. I can't do that.
Try and have a sleep routine. I can kind of do that. Another forcing mechanism? My wife and I always get to sleep at the same time. And that hack has forced me not to say, look, I'll just do the job later, I'll do my emails later. I gotta get it done before we get into bed. So, two things for you. Number one, figure out your sleep duration. Your sleep duration is where you don't need a coffee, and where you're not yawning. For me, that is 7 hours. I don't know what it is for you. It's probably at least 6 and a half, it's probably not more than 9. Figure it out.
And number two, figure out the boundary that's going to help you get there. Which, for us, is getting to sleep at the same time as a couple, setting a time at night by which we're targeting to be in bed, which means we've got to be brushing teeth by this time, which means we've got to go upstairs by this time, all the boring stuff.
But that is where greatness is forged, in the boring habits. That's where Olympians are formed, in the 5am get-ups, the 7AM-trainings, and so will be with you, and figuring out your sleep.
Okay, so, quick question. Everybody, rate yourself. Again, safe forum, I don't think these scores will be shared. Please give yourself a score out of 10. 10 is like, I've got this, I've got the sleep thing figured out, not a problem. 0 is like, oh my goodness, I'm a disaster. Without 4 coffees, I'm dead.
Please put your scores there. Again, not really for accountability or judgment, but I'd love to see where they mean… I'd love for everyone to see where the mean is, the average is, and we can hopefully inspire each other.
Well, zero, Rachel. Well, the good thing is, the only way is up. I believe in you. Okay, great. So, not amazing. I'd actually give myself an 8 on this. Gemma, well done. You should be given this webinar. So, I think for each of these, you're probably targeting an 8. An 8 means they're not perfect, but I've kind of got this habit sorted. It looks like we have plenty of room to maneuver. Well done, Nick. No surprises there. I don't know where Nick gets the energy from. It's… you can't drink enough coffee with that kind of stuff.
Alright, that's number one, sleep. So please remember, please remember sleep is the first one. Let me go from sleep, to health. I'm going to talk about health and funeral phrases. So, first letter S, second letter H. If you want to take a guess at what that seven-letter word is, please put it in the chat.
So, what is health?
To me, I define health as the following:
Will I be able to pick up my grandkids when I'm 80?
I'll say that again. That's how I define health. It's functional. Well, I better do such and such when I'm such and such age. I'm not trying to, like, necessarily optimise for a sprint, or muscle, or things like that right now. That might be your definition of health. For me, it is ultimately about sustainability. It was one of my favorite books, Essentialism says, Protect That Asset.
How long is this asset going to last? And so, what I would challenge you is figure out the set of health things, and I'll talk about diet later. Health things, so let's just talk about exercise and movement now, those are the boundaries that you need to live within in order to give a sustained life.
So, sleep is a big one, which we spoke about. Usually, it involves some kind of cardiovascular exercise. So, the knowledge… Here's the data on cardiovascular exercise. Number one, while we can, we should be aiming for 10,000 steps a day. 8,000 is probably the minimum, but 10,000. Almost all of you have an inbuilt thing, at least your phone, if you're on an Apple Watch or something, that counts steps. To me, that's one useful boundary.
Another boundary is the number of… amount of cardiovascular exercise, where it's not just walking, but you're sweating, or at least pushing yourself, pilates or yoga. Generally, it's 3 times – 30 minutes a week is the research. There's some, if you get up to 180 minutes, there's generally more, right? But that is keeping your heart healthy, irrespective, you know, of your weight and things like that.
Number 3, your weight. And for men, sometimes that's kind of belly fat, or things of that nature, you know, BMI is another way to track it. There's a few different ways. The research I've seen is that, for men in particular, kind of like waist measurement is a pretty good indicator. BMI is not bad, but it's jarring. Body fat, if you get a DEXA scan or something like that, is not bad. Again, it can be a little… body fat at least gets around the, I'm too muscular challenge. But there are a few different metrics.
Another part of health is blood tests, you know, it's cholesterol or blood sugar, you know, or things like that.
Another part of health is weights. I talked about body mass as well. There's increasing research that some of the best predictors of longevity is how much protein you're eating and how much muscle mass you have, particularly in protecting things like osteoporosis and things like that for women, and increasingly, you know, for men. We need muscle, and we need to sustain that muscle.
So there are a gazillion health markers to look at, a gazillion health markers to look at. And I'd say habit number one is I'm not going to preach to you on a particular one health marker.
But at least, have goals. Actually, have goals.
Most people I meet have no health goals.
It's like, my healthy goal is, like, I'm alive, and I'm not sick, and that's not bad too, right? But generally, have some health goals. Just like in your business, whether you're property management or sales, you have metrics, you have objective and key results. I would put it to you, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. If you don't have metrics, you don't really have goal-oriented behavior, which to me, is the most powerful thing we have as human beings, to set ourselves on something, and then go for it.
So, the number one habit with health is actually having a goal. Actually have a goal. If you don't have a goal, you don't have a plan. You don't have something to aim at. You don't want to aim at something, you don't know what you're missing.
Number one, have health goals. And for me, one of the things I do with my doctor is I've said, look, please pay for me, if you can justify with Medicare, to get a blood test every 4 months.
And that, to me, is a very good indicator for some of the things that have been high in my life, like cholesterol and blood sugar and things like that. I have one of those smart scales I just step on every day, and it records it, my Fitbit, simple stuff. I try and do things which are easy and habitual to measure myself against those goals.
Habit number one, have goals. Habit number two, measure yourself against those goals. Measure yourself against those goals, on a regular basis. And that sounds hard, because who's got time to go get a blood test? But actually, if you build into habits, it can be quite quick. It can be quite quick, and you just go there, you wait, and you get your thing done, and you get to the metrics after a while.
Number 3 with health is, figure out the health habits that are going to sustain you. So I'll go back to a time in my life, about 12 years ago now. And I remember going to the doctor and getting a very shocking set of results. I won't even go into detail here, but a very shocking set of results, where, effectively, I was then 33, 34, right? But, there was a chance that I might die in the next 15 years. Such was the nature of some of these blood tests. It's like, oh my goodness, something has got to change. What am I gonna do?
And so, what I did was, I said, oh geez, I have got to form a habit that is going to help me eat better, which I'll come to, and exercise. And what I discovered is this.
In and of itself, I find the treadmill elliptical, really, really boring. Really boring. But, I find running outside at a very slow pace moderately interesting. But, if I'm on a treadmill at the gym watching a box set, and I really got into House of Cards or, if I am out in the street running, listening to a podcast about politics, I could do that for hours. So I found the health hack that I actually looked forward to. I had another health hack where I ran to the bakery and got a croissant and ran back. That one was not so good but running up the street and listening to podcasts was actually really, really healthy.
And to me, if you've ever read the book on habits, like Atomic Habits by James Clear, this is called Habit Stacking.
You find one habit, and it stacks into another habit, which stacks into another habit, and before you know it, you have a series of good achievements that once you start the trigger, you execute all of them. And for me, it's putting on my running shoes and starting running, and having a list of great podcasts or a list of great audiobooks that I find really interesting, or having a queue of YouTube videos or Netflix things I want to watch, and having a TV in front of my weight set or my treadmill at home.
That's me.
And I rode that habit all the way to really improving my blood test results. Losing a bunch of weight, which was my challenge back then.
So, with health, number one, please have a goal. Have a goal that is actually numerical. Number two, have a way, a rhythm by which you're going to measure yourself to that goal. Maybe it's a measuring tape, a scale, a blood test every few months that's paid for by Medicare, which you get through your doctor. And number three, figure out the health hack that supports that.
For me, it was doing cardio a few times a week, getting addicted to podcasts and TV. Maybe it's a walk with a friend that gets you step-ups. Maybe it's going to the gym with a friend or doing a class that gets your muscle mass or your resistance going. There's no one right answer. But to me, you've got to make health a priority. Not only does it give it longevity, my goal is I want to be lifting my grandkids at 80, ideally two at the same time but it's gonna help you be and perform better today.
Okay, number one, sleep. Number two, health. Give yourself a rating for health. Remember, 0 is terrible, 10 is great, 8 is pretty good and or feel free to make a comment if you want. Alright, what do we get? Oh, we've got a mix of stuff! Still, I think we're averaging not that great as a team, probably about 7, but, you know, there's some athletes here. Well done, guys, good stuff.
Number 3 is A for anchor. So I've got sleep, health, and anchor. Come on, is everyone gonna take a stab at the winning prize?
When I say anchor, I mean this. Depending, you might be religious, you might not be religious. If you're not religious, you might think of this as a mantra. A mantra. A mantra is something where, you know, you are… repeats yourself. Repeat yourself every day. If you're spiritual, as I am, it might be a prayer. But for me, it's about having a way that you get anchored in something bigger than yourself.
I'll say that again. Anchor is a way that you get anchored to something bigger than yourself. Could be mantra. Could be meditation. Could be slow yoga. What is it that connects your spiritual side? For me, I grew up in the church and grabbing the church was a real two-edged sword. I think on the one hand, it actually made me and gave me all the skills about volunteering, about organising kids' camps, about Speak Up the Front, about helping lead Bible studies and encouraging kids, things that I use in the workplace every day.
I think I met a whole lot of mixed people at the church. Some people were extremely caring, and then some people who were quite extreme. And, it all takes all sorts. I think one of the very positive things about our church is that it helped me see the world through a very spiritual lens. It was almost the assumption that what we have in front of us is not all there is, and the world is not just about maximising self, whatever that means, but it's about a greater good.
And religion, whatever religion you are, or just believing in humanity, or believing in society, I think are ways to do that. I think it grounds us in ways. It grounds us in ways. And so for me, let me talk about a few of the anchors that I have. There's a few different mantras I say to myself. One is, like, you know, hey, I am enough. Which is hard for me, because a lot of my life, early in my career, was defined by believing I'm not enough.
Oh my goodness, I see it! Hannah, you got it! Man, Hannah! I think, I think I'll see you at AREC. There's a prize waiting for you there. That prize, if you are indeed the Hannah I'm thinking of, may be a position on the rise board. But in addition to that, there'll be further prizes available to you. But in all seriousness, thank you.
It is Sharpen.
Or is it sharper? It's actually “sharpen”, you're right, sharpen. So I'm hoping today really sharpens your thinking around looking at your life, and gives you a few things to make you sharper. But congratulations, Hannah. Hannah, well done. We have some fabulous book prizes available. Thank you, Rise, and thank you, MRI, for those prizes.
So, for me, an anchor is about how you connect yourself bigger to something more than yourself? Right? I'll talk about some of the things that have anchored me in my life. Volunteering was a huge one. Volunteering is a way, and I'm thinking now how to do that for our kids, of taking yourself out of your bubble, whatever that bubble is. It could be a rich bubble, it could be a real estate bubble, could be a relational bubble, a family bubble, and connecting yourself with a reality that's different to your own.
Ideally one where they have more needs than you. And you see how lucky you are, and you feel that sense of need, right? You feel how much difference you can make in the universe. That's one anchor. The second one I talked about is a mantra, a prayer.
For me, it's “I am enough”.
It's another one. It's the serenity prayer. God, grab me. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change what I can. And the wisdom to know the difference. These are prayers I try and say often to remind myself, to connect myself with something greater than myself.
Right? I think meditation is great, yoga is great, silence is great, nature walks are great. All these things that give you an anchor beyond the technology, the AI, the sales, the politics, the things you're involved in day-to-day.
An anchor is so important, particularly as you get more senior. We'll say that. So for me, meditation, volunteering, prayer, silence, nature walks are all ways to connect yourself to those things. And the test of that to me is… What's my reaction when things go bad? What's more actually when things go bad?
Is it like, “Oh! Is that how we act?” Particularly with kids. Particularly the kids. For those of you who have children, how do you react? Or work disappointment, lose a deal. Bad interaction. Frustrated with your boss. How do you react? The amount to which I've given myself an anchor and to use that anchor is directly related to my ability to respond when things don't go my way. That anchor literally is that thing that holds us stable in times of trouble, in tumultuous times. And we know that we're in challenging times today, both macro and micro. So, maybe what I'll do now is two things.
Give yourself a rating on how you have a good number, good quality anchors in your life? And if you have them, please just type them in. You might say, I give myself a 7, I'm big on meditation. 9, I'm a big churchgoer and volunteer. Please yell out those things, or type in those things, so others can benefit from your skills. Alright, Kirsty, thanks for your candidates. Number two, Matt and Hannah, Gemma, lots of 7s, 7s is good, 7s are solid.
George, prayer, Massgoer, oh yeah, Mass. That'll get you. I mean, Mass, there's a lot of silence there. That is a very good way to get grounded. Alright, I've done a lot of singing in Catholic churches there. Meditation, grounding, gardening, oh, that's a great one. Gardening. How much do you gotta slow down?
And you've got to accept the things that you cannot control when you're gardening. Nature and good friends, Louise, that's great. I'm going to talk about friendships later. Mowing, Matt, you will always walk in my house. Please come and get more anchored at my house. Okay, I'll send you the address later. I'll even pay you to get anchored by lawn mowing at my house. Nick, meditation, I know Nick's spoken a lot about that. Fantastic. Okay, number 1 sleep. Number two, health. Number three, anchor. Number four, relationships.
Relationships. So I'm going to talk about relationships in two. R is for relationships, P, I'm going to talk about people. So relationships, I'll talk about first.
The relationships I'm going to talk about are the most… Oh, yeah, mow's… Great as a fault. Oh, that's a good one. Yes, I may keep outsourcing my mowing for now, we'll see how that goes, Carla, but I get the suggestion.
Relationships. To me, the most important relationship is my partner and my wife. This beautiful lady, a beautiful girl called Faith, who I got to marry 10 years ago. I feel very lucky. And the thing about the relationship is the folly. You always get out what you put in. And my belief with relationships is the following. On the one hand, it's not about quantity, it's about the quality of your relationship. It's about the quality of your relationship. But ultimately, intentional quantity drives quality. Intentional quantity drives quality.
See, here's what I mean by that.
We have a pretty good marriage. We really have a great time together. The reason we have a good time together is the following. We spend a lot of time together. We spend a lot of time together. Even on a busy day, we will spend at least two and a half hours unadulterated with each other. Sometimes it's multitasking, doing the dishes, all that kind of stuff, of course. But me and my wife, we always get two and a half hours a day when we're both in the same place, which is most of the time. I think if we did not have that, we'd really struggle.
And if you go back to some of the conversations I had earlier about my relationship, my marriage early on. The conversation was, number one. When we meet, you're not at your best. You've given your best to someone else, you're not gonna have sleep. And number two, we are not getting enough time. We are not going to get enough time. But what are you talking about? I said, this is me, kind of newly married. I need to do my volunteering. It's important, it's healthy. Here's my friend's group, we're meeting up. I need to work this hard to earn the money. I don't want to volunteer at church, and I don't want to go for this run. She said, no, no, no, no.
If I'm the most important thing in your life. You're gonna make it work, so we're spending enough time together. If we don't spend enough time together, this marriage is gonna work. And if this marriage isn't working, all those things, you're gonna have to re-look at anyway. And my wife was right.
Ultimately, quantity drove quality. Now, I don't want to be prescriptive about what quality and quantity look like to you. There's different ways to make it work. Right now, we've got 4 kids, it's very hard for us to get out on a date night. Very, very hard. We have to hire two people, they need special skills, the kids don't really appreciate other people in the bed right now. It's an incredibly fun stage of life, but it's very restrictive.
So here are our dates. Number one, we try to get the kids to bed as soon as possible. Number two, date time is the time between that and we're gonna sleep. We try to make it fun, we watch a lot of Netflix, we eat food, we order Uber Eats, all those kinds of fun things. But that's daytime.
And now, it's a habit. It's a habit. That's not work time. Okay, maybe occasionally I have to do work. That's an exception. That is date time. That is daytime, 7 days a week. And I'm kind of lucky, I guess, that that has now become a habit. Something so automatic that it would feel strange not to do it. Because the reality is, that is not what I was most of my life. Work came first, friends came second, time with family, like, whatever. Whatever. But to me, choosing that habit was probably the greatest thing I did for my marriage, and arguably my life. Those 2 hours I have every day. And ideally, more times we get. But even if nothing else works out, date nights, movies, things like that, we always have that.
Who is the most important relationship of your life? It could be a loved one, it could be a spouse, it could be a best friend. And do you have a habitual time together? Habitual time together that does not move. That doesn't move. I put it to you that habit. The quantity of that habit is probably the most important thing you can do to sustain high performance.
Number one, it'll keep you grounded. Because somebody else will be able to speak into your life. I think one of the reasons I use this number, 2 hours is so important is because, honestly, sometimes, like, that first hour is just getting the disagreements, the fighting, the discussion, the upset out.It's saying, like, hey, that really pissed me off, or like, what did you mean by that? Or all those kinds of things, which have got… which need to happen. And the problem is, if you do not spend that time together.
The time you do, you're either gonna tread on eggshells around it, or you're gonna spend all your time fighting. You have to have enough time to get through the phase of argument to actually enjoy and say, great, we've got that off our chest, let's hang out. That's really important, to keep those lists of grievances short, so nothing gets to fester too long.
So, number one, pick the most important relationship of your life, and number two, design a habit where you are getting sufficient quantity of time, and I define quantity of time, enough time where you're getting past your… you're getting past all the things that are upset, you're getting past the logistics, which is a big thing in a marriage, and you're actually having time to enjoy each other. That, to me, is enough time. For me and my wife, that's two and a half hours a day, plus extras. For you, maybe it's less, maybe it's more, but figure that out, and then make that protectant. Sure, maybe once in a while it gets broken, but that's the exception, and then we make it up. That's not the only habit you should think of. We have other cool habits in our relationship.
One of the big ones is we celebrate a monthly anniversary. Oh my goodness, John, you're such a high achiever. Well, when I say monthly anniversary, I write a note on a card and I hide it under a bed. Right? And it's our little thing where, like, I reflect on the things where I thought, I'm so grateful to be married to you over the last month.
And hopefully we can also get to dinner, and hopefully we can also have some fun dessert, or do something. But if nothing works, at least we have that habit. What are the habits that you have in your life? I would say pick one that's very frequent, that is just sheer contact time, nothing special. We spend 2 hours a day together. We meet up every week for 3 hours. We do logistics for 2 hours, then we go for a walk for 2 hours, whatever it is. And then try and find some things to keep it fun for the most important relationship in your life.
Okay, give yourself… Well, I don't know if it's too sensitive to give a score on this, but I think it's probably okay. I give myself an 8. If you feel comfortable, give yourself a score. If you can. Share any of the habits, just really quickly, in the chat that other people can learn from. You can also say lawn mowing again, if that's kind of the thing you do with your spouse, that's great. You can both come over and lawn and garden our place together. Very, very welcome. But in all seriousness, please give yourself a score if you feel comfortable. Share some habits, or both.
Well done, Emily, it's great to see Nick running together and date night, fantastic. A lot of 6 and 7s, great to see not too many low scores, though you don't… you're totally fine if you're a low score, you don't want to disclose that. Weekend drives, that's a good one. Ideally, you don't have to drive two different directions, depending on how many children you have to drive around. You know, but ideally, yeah, driving is great.
Okay. Dinner and a movie nightly, try to go out for dinner once a week. That's awesome. That's great. Okay, let's go. So, next one, we play sports together. That's a very good one. That is a great habit stacking right there. Very, very good.
Okay, so, let's go into the next one. Run to the home straight, guys. P. P is for people. So just like you should solve for the most important relationship in your life, I do believe that sustained performance is good by having at least one, I'll call it, friend group.
I remember Nick… Nick Wester shared publicly his relationship with, with Crackers, with James Keenan, and had that relationship over 33 years. They meet every week, they go through a scorecard, like, it's great. You know, they had their relationship with their loved ones, but this is something where, you know, it's… it's accountability.
For me, I'll share something which, you know, in terms of my own… I've got my own best friends, I've got my Australian best friend, I've got my Irish best friend.
But actually, the most important group for me… There's been a group of people I went to Stanford with, and we all did our MBAs 20 years ago, and we were the… the Christian Fellowship, was our… was our group together. And, a few of us lived together, we went to Vegas, like, 10 times together to play poker. We had lots of fun together.
Then, you know, we graduated, we all went our different ways, I went to Europe, other people went to different places. And then one day we discovered, like, hey, you know, wouldn't it be good to stay in touch? And we stumbled upon two concepts which are really cool. Number one, every year, on the same long weekend, can we all fly to a place and meet up? And it's a… it's a, it's in January, it's a whole day called Martin Luther King Weekend. And for the last, like, 15 years, almost 20 years, whoever can make it has gone and spent the long weekend together in some part of America, near an airport. Near a beach, near an airport, depending on what it is.
That's been one habit. But the most critical habit for me has been, we have, like, a weekly conference call. So it's every morning, on a Wednesday, 7am, decent time, people can get there, you know, on the way to work, or whatever it is. Whoever can make it can dial into a video call. There's 10 of us, sometimes no one makes it, sometimes 2 people, this morning it was 6 of us. We'll dial it. And it's kind of an open forum. And it's problem solving. Usually, we're talking about job stuff, family stuff, health stuff.
Sometimes, someone's really upset, sometimes we pray together, sometimes we cry together. It's all that kind of stuff. And for me, the greatness of that habit isn't in doing it once. It's that it's now become something we do every week for a decade. It's something extremely precious. Something I'm very, very grateful for. But having that circle of people, by which we've created an interaction where we can have a meaningful, a meaningful, coordinated interaction that gets beneath the surface, that allows for problem solving, encouragement, support. That, to me, has been really, really crucial. Really, really important. And for me, that's been super cool. Really cool. And so, for me, we talked about the most important relationship.
Number two, who is your circle of people? Who are they? Do you have them? If you don't, there's many ways to meet them. There's meetup, there's Joining Club, there's church, there's people who are your peers, who you work with, other people in the industry. Find your tribe. Not just your loved one, but your tribe? And can you create some kind of repeated interaction? I've got it every week, maybe every month, maybe every three months. But where you know, I almost call it, like, a board of directors, where you know, you can turn to, who are on the journey with you, who have context, who can encourage you, who can support you, who can fight for you, who can be a first point of networking if you need someone.
I have found that group to be invaluable. For those of you around in the 80s and watch Cheers, you might call it where everybody knows your name. Maybe it's a church, maybe it's a small group, but ideally, it's not just a club, it's a group of people who know you well. So, give yourself a score between 0 and 10.
A low score is like, I don't have one, or it's erratic. You know, maybe a high score is like, we've got one, it's going great. And you might even, you know, if you've got a high score, even just talk about, like, where's that from? Is it from work? Is it from family? People who study together? Is it a neighborhood? Is it kids, parents, friends? That can be pretty cool.
And to me, this is so much the stuff of life. Yes, loved ones, family, I think, you know, and self come first. But it's the friends around you who you share the journey with, go through in stages, which is really important, and quite hard to get, particularly once you reach a certain age.
Aids, school friends, Louise, good girlfriends, fantastic. Thank you for sharing. The unlicensed room has 10. That's pretty good. So good, that room is unlicensed. Group of school friends, fantastic. Thank you for sharing, George. Sometimes 2, sometimes 10. Well, on average, that's a 6. That's not too bad. Alright guys, so that's great to see. Find your fret group. And V, that's been a great hack.
And again, if you don't have that, I would really work hard on having it. I remember when I first went to Ireland, I didn't know it was Seoul, I'd just joined Google there many years ago, and I said to myself, okay, this is like, I don't know anyone, but I'm gonna make some great lifelong friends.
Here's how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna find a church. I'm gonna go to that church so much, until it feels weird to not go to that church. And when I'm at the church, I'm gonna try and have lunch or coffee with someone, somehow, anywhere I can. And for the first few weeks, it felt really hard. And then it got easier. And then it was awesome. And again, every experience is different. You might… I'm an extrovert, you might be an introvert. But work hard, if you don't know what to do, ask ChatGPT, but if you don't have that group, find your group, but at least everyone who's responded today has got that group.
Cultivate, protect it, add value to that group. Often what I do is, I try and be the convener of that group. I try and, like, coordinate and make sure, like, hey guys, we'll meet at this time, and hey, who's coming this week, and hey, let's get organised for our weekend away. A little bit of admin goes a long way. Everyone's busy, everyone's busy, so you going the extra mile is the cohesion that not only your friends need, but you need as well.
Okay, second last letter, E. E is for eating well and nutrition.
Eating while nutrition. I've talked about health before, and health is many different things. It could be losing weight, could be building muscle, could be gaining weight, who knows what it is. For me? What I've tried to do, and generally, I love food, so my typical problem is I want to lose weight. I have found, unfortunately, that it's very hard to exercise my way to the right health outcome. Generally, you have to eat your way there, or in this case, not eat your way there.
You're gonna figure out nutrition, and the number of calories. And again, I'm not… want to give a seminar here on caloric deficit and things like that. There's lots of literature about that. But bottom line for me, even though exercise was a really important habit that I started when I was trying to get my blood back on track, the sustaining part has been nutrition. Because exercise, you build your habits, it can be hard to sustain them. In the end, very few of us are going to have hours and hours and hours to exercise every week.
It's the eating, it's the mundane choices about food, about food quantity and food quality, that generally will serve you well or build up bad habits or cholesterol for your life. It's generally the difference between a long life and longevity, and risk of chronic diseases, like cancer and heart attacks and diabetes and things like that, and not. Nutrition is so, so, so important. But nutrition, if you think about it, is just a series of habits.
Just as here as its habits. And so, that habit could be, like, what we have in Japan, where they try and only eat until they're 80% full. Hara Hachibu, for those of you who've watched the Netflix documentary, Live to 100. It's an old Japanese saying that says, “Please only eat 80% full.”
For me, that's really hard, because I love eating to 120% full, but that's been a good guiding principle. Worry less about being hungry, worry more about being too full.
The biggest habit I ever achieved, going back 10, 11 years ago, we realised, like, oh my goodness, I need to improve my nutrition and my exercise, I'm gonna improve my blood work.
What am I gonna do? I can't be hungry. I find it very hard to be hungry. Okay, I can eat till I'm 80% full, fine. I've had to learn to stuff myself with vegetables. I'll say it again. One of the single greatest things that I ever did, the single greatest habits was learning to stuff myself with vegetables. Learning to love, or at least satisfy myself with vegetables.
For me, as someone who had not eaten vegetables for most of my life, until I was in my early to mid-30s, this was very hard. This is very hard, because the last thing I was ever eating was vegetables. Maybe a bit of lettuce on the hamburger, and a pickle. Pickles are vegetables, right? I didn't really want to eat vegetables.
What I learned is this. If you don't want to be hungry, you want to eat well, you're going to have to learn to love vegetables. And for me, it wasn't just saying I have to learn to love all vegetables, it was trying to figure out which vegetables, in what preparation, I really liked.
For example, it turns out I really like baked pumpkin and baked Brussels sprouts. Turns out I really like coleslaw with apple cider vinegar. That is something I could actually love, it's almost like a treat.
Turns out, I really like char-grilled broccoli. These are all things prepared. They're a particular kind of vegetable. And now we have in our food rotation at least one of those vegetables every night, and we cook it in abundance! So, I can eat as much of the vegetable as I can, so I get as much protein as I need, and the things I really, really enjoy, the carbohydrates, dessert if we have it, things like that. Then, I'm not eating out of hunger, but I'm eating as a treat.
Again, I'm talking about my particular situation and my particular needs might be totally different to yours. But to me, you've got to figure out what nutrition habits that you can stack. And for me, it's 8-80% full, and it's vegetables.
That's pretty much it. All of us got to find food selection, whatever your particular need is. If you can't get this right, if you can't get this on automatic. Then in the long term, it's gonna be trouble. If you only put on half a kilo a year, in 20 years, you'll put on 10 kilos. Right? Same if you're trying to gain weight and you're losing weight, whatever it is. These things are always won and lost on the margin, and the margin is the habit you have every day, every meal, every hour. What are the things you do on automatic?
And I want to take this time. I know I've got one last one left to give to you, but, as you think about, please give yourself a rating out of 10 as to how you're doing with your nutrition for eating.
E is for eating well, right? For me. This is my framework for habits.
This is what I tell all my kids. Choose a habit. Pick your habit wisely. At first, it seems impossible. But you do it a few more times, and then it just seems hard. And after a while, it becomes manageable. And after a while, it becomes easy. But the ultimate is, It becomes invisible. You don't even think about it. You just do it without thinking. Like driving home from work. Like your morning routine, it just becomes automatic. That is the goal for all these habits I've spoken about. It is now routine for me to cook a lot of vegetables, and to eat those vegetables first, and that's the biggest volume.
It's routine for me to spend 2 hours with my wife every night. Don't even think about it. It's routine for me to want to be doing weights 3 times a week, to want to go for runs 2 times a week. These are things which have now become so automatic, but all of them started seemingly impossible. Impossible to hard, hard to manageable, manageable to easy, easy to invisible, to automatic.
And so, thank you, oh, leftover birthday cake. Well, that's because of all the friends you had in your unlicensed room sharing that birthday cake, and happy birthday, from all of us at Rise. Thank you for sharing the scores, looks like there is some room for improvement there, but, you know, it's not terrible. Let me talk at last.
N. N is for nourishing your mind. It's not great. It was a stretch. We got really close, but that N1 wasn't so good. Nourish your mind. Learning.
What I have found, the trait of all high performers is they all want to get better. Doesn't mean better in everything, they may not want to get richer, though many do. They may not want to get faster, they may do. They may be able to get better at this particular skill, it might be a new skill, it might be something different. But they're always growing. I believe as humans, we're living organisms. If we're not growing, we're dying.
And I also believe that if you're not using it, you're losing it. And the greatest muscle we have is our mind, is our brain. So constantly challenging our mind with what got us here won't get us there is where I want to be, even when I'm 80, carrying two grandkids. I want to be challenging myself, growing; not settling. I was gonna say not to slow down, but slowing down gardening is a good thing, which I hope is a habit I pick up one day.
So what's the best way for you to learn? There could be lots of things now. I actually learned a lot from Instagram. I put a 5-minute limit on it, because otherwise I'll spend 5 hours on the thing. But Instagram, for a limited period of time, is very useful, and so much about parenting, so much about health, so much about business and politics.
For me, the best way I've done this is habit stacking. I talked about my exercise regimen, I'm going to be running, I'm doing weights, and I stack that with the learning. Here are the videos I'm going to watch. Here are the podcasts I want to learn about.
Notebook LLM with Google is great for those who haven't used it, and you can use it just with ChatGBT audio mode as well. You give it a document, and you say, create a podcast about it. It's fantastic, it's super interesting. Particularly as I've been doing job interviews and things like that, that's how I prepare. I get them to prepare a podcast about materials that I have about a company, and I learn so much about it. And then, with ChatGPT, I can have a debate about it, or ask more questions.
Nourishing your mind, to me, is the greatest habit, because it allows you to learn even new habits, and bring that in, and constantly get outside of your bubble. So, as you're giving yourself a score about nourishing your mind, about how much you're learning day to day, I'm just going to give you a quick summary, and then to open up for any questions. I only have 3 minutes, but if you've got any questions, please put them in the chat right now. If not, I'll just proceed with my summary.
My goal today is to sharpen your thinking about yourself.
And the fundamental framework, if you want to have 7 habits, or any habits for long-term high performance, is the following. Your long-term high performance is entirely going to be governed by the habits you automatically do day to day. By those habits you will live.
But as a habit, you will die.
So choose your habits, look at the habits you have across the 7 categories I've given. And think about, where are my habits 8, 9 out of 10? Fantastic. And where are the areas I need to stack and learn some great habits?
I'm gonna repeat them now, just so you have it here, and I decided not to do some slides. Number one, sleep. Figure out your sleep goal, the amount of hours you need without yawning or taking coffee. Number two, figure out the things you will do that will get you there. A bedtime, or a habit. I must go to bed at the same time with my spouse, or I'm not gonna drink coffee. What are the hard habits that will help you enforce the level of sleep you're getting?
Number two, health. Working out. Number one, what is your health goal? I want to be 80-year-old and pick up my two kids, grandkids, whatever it is. Number two, how will you measure that you're on track for that? For me, it's a series of blood tests. Maybe for you it's cardio, VO2 max, your heart rate, your Apple Watch score, whatever it is.
Figure out what are the metrics that matter.
Number 3, figure out the habits that'll help you work out. For me, it is the running, it's the steps, and it's the weights. Right? And I make those things pleasurable and enjoyable, so I do them.
Number one, we talked about sleep. Number two, health. Number three, anchor. How are you anchoring yourself to something greater than yourself? Is it volunteering? Is it prayer? Is it silence? Is it nature work? Is it church? Is it the mosque? Whatever you do.
The real test of this is, how do you react when things don't go your way? Are you all over the place? Are you calm? Are you centered? Because you know that this is just a thing, but you're connected to the thing that really matters.
Number four, relationships with your most important loved one. Spouse, best friend, whatever it is. Quantity ultimately drives quality.
Are you getting enough quantity with them? And they can have quantity with them. How do I define quantity? For me, quantity is enough time where we've gone through the disagreements, we've gone through logistics, we're now enjoying each other. For me and my wife, that is two and a half hours every day, plus extras.
On top of that, what other fun things we're doing together? For us, it's monthly anniversaries. Maybe it's date night, maybe it's special prizes, maybe it's a lucky dip of things, whatever it is. Have your special icing to go with the cake, but the cake is, are you spending close time with each other?
Number 5, people. Who is the friend circle who knows you well? Is it school friends, like for me and others on the call? What is the habit you have? Quantity also drives quality. You create that forum when you're going on the journey, before you know it, 10 years have gone by. That's people.
Number 6, eat good nutrition. What are your nutrition goals? What is the food regimen you need to be successful? And what are the habits you need to do that? For me, it was two. Learn how to love vegetables and figure out which ones, and number three, number two, only eat till I'm 80% full. What is it for you to pay whatever your goals are?
And number seven, nourish your mind with learning. For me, what are the easy ways that I enjoy learning? TikTok, Instagram with time limits, notebook LLM, chatting to ChatGPT, and stacking that ideally with exercise or with steps.
So, no one's asked me questions, and I've taken the time anyway. It was so good to see all of you, well, see Kylie, and see the text from any of you.
Looking forward to seeing many of you and AREC in a few weeks' time. Hannah, please let me know if I can be helpful. And Hannah, congratulations on guessing Sharpen. A prize will be coming your way when I see you next. Thanks, everyone.
Kylie:
Thank you so much, John, that was absolutely wonderful. And I love that stacking of habits and the framework, and it's always easier to remember these things when you've got a great way of doing that. We've had one quick question, which was, what was the name of the notebook again?
John:
Notebook LLM? Oh, sorry, Notebook…
Kylie:
slim?
John:
So just type in notebooklm.google.com, or just search for NotebookLM, and what you do is you upload files, or documents, or web pages, and then you go to a place called Studio, and you can make a slide deck, a podcast, a quiz, flashcards… just try it, it's amazing. It's amazing.
Kylie:
Awesome! It's one of my favorite tools.
John:
Kylie uses it a lot, and it'll get you into AI as well, which is very important.
Kylie:
Yeah, it certainly will, and it'll do it safely, because it only uses what's in the LM, and LM stands for Language Model. Language.
John:
Yes, that's right, that's right.
Kylie:
So, yeah, so locked, a locked, a locked space for your content. John, thank you so much for that. Are you gonna be at AREC?
John:
I'll be there, yeah, yeah, I'll see that. I'm actually on, speak at the Property Managers Summit as well, and I'll be…
Kylie:
What?
John:
Waving the RISE flag and the domain flag, but waving the Rise flag as well, so I'm very proud to see all that.
Kylie:
Yeah, and we have just got confirmation that Rise will definitely be at AREC again this year. We'll be there both with Domain, but we've also got our own little mini-stand this year, so please come and say hi, and we'll be, you know, sharing the love and spreading the word about the Real Care app.
So thank you so much for that. I think that's sharp, and I'm gonna memorise that now.
John:
Give it a shot.
Kylie:
You've given us that. Thank you, everybody. Thank you to MRI Software for allowing us to host our wellness webinars.
Our next one is in June, and I think, actually, that's me. It's going to be on why you like this? Why are you like this? Question I've been asked my whole life. So we're going to dive into that and look at some of the neuroscience and psychology that new thinking that's coming out that will help us unpack that issue for you. So thank you again, everybody. It's been great to have you on the call.
John:
Thanks guys!
Kylie:
the recording, and see you next month. Thank you!
John:
Bye!
Kylie:
Bye! Thanks, John.
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